Prior to forming Liquid Liquid in 1981, the band members were in two other groups: Liquid Idiot and Idiot Orchestra. While these ensembles sounded more experimental than groove-oriented, the beginnings of Liquid Liquid's spatial / conceptual framework can be heard here. Liquid Idiot started at Rutgers University in the late '70s and soon relocated to NYC where they performed at various lofts and clubs including Tier 3, Mudd Club and CBGB. The band even encouraged audience members to bring their own instruments to their early shows. Idiot Orchestra was an offshoot that included a dozen or more players (clarinet, sax, trumpet, violin, cello, synth, bass, marimba and drums) resembling a No Wave version of Raymond Scott's big band.